Avainsana: design thinking

Episode 19: Will AI Cause Lawyer Extinction, Jim Chiang?

Jim Chiang.

We kick off the second season with Jim Chiang, the CEO and Founder of My Legal Einstein.After having a relaxing summer break and resting our brains we are back with a bang!

Artificial Intelligence is such a hot potato in the legal industry it deserves an episode of its own. And there certainly can’t be value adding AI without design thinking behind it. We are joined by Jim Chiang who is a pioneer when it comes to AI and is now leading My Legal Einstein on its journey to help lawyers find better ways of working.

We lawyers are known for our not so functional ways of working. Most of our processes are based on manual work and we still do a lot of copy-pasting. A few years back there was a lot of discussion about whether or not the robots are going to take over the legal work but we are still at the place where we lack imagination of how to add AI to our work. But this is where Jim can help us lawyers. His examples are so practical that AI actually makes sense, finally. 

The  systems at the moment don’t include high-level reasoning or thought and computers can only do what us humans have taught them to do. One of the goals for Legal Design is to find better ways for lawyers to work so that we can focus on actual legal work and problem solving  instead of wasting our time copy-pasting. But how do we make sure that we don’t teach AI our bad processes and up with AI that just knows how to copy-paste? 

After talking to Jim, we can safely encourage you to set your alarm clocks for tomorrow morning, there is still a need for human lawyers and legal designers. But with the help of AI the future might be a little brighter for lawyers and other professionals working in the legal industry because AI can enhance our ability to perform our tasks and optimize our practices. Tune in to our discussion with Jim to learn what you can expect from AI.

Jim Chiang, CEO and Founder, My Legal Einstein – Before starting My Legal Einstein, Jim led the AI engineering teams at Conga and Icertis, the two market leaders in the CLM (contract lifecycle management) product space.  Jim has served multiple executive roles leading product and engineering organizations.  Jim has over 20 years of experience in big data analytics and AI algorithm development.  Jim holds a Bachelors of Engineering from MIT.

18. Episode: Myth Busting Contract Design with Stefania Passera

Stefania Passera.

“As many other things more or less abstract in the world surrounding us, contracts are man-made. If they are man-made, they are designed.. The fact that there’s a lack of design doesn’t mean it’s not designed, it’s bad design. We might as well do good design that is self-aware.” says Stefania Passera. 

Many people associate legal design with designing of contracts, but actually contract design is its own unique form of design that can have many other purposes than just making the legal aspects more understandable. Contracts can work as effective tools for preventing legal conflicts by supporting business, brand or social relations between contracting parties. However, these different purposes can be reached only when contracts are designed to fit them. 

In the last episode of the spring season 2021, Henna and Nina are joined by Stefania Passera, to bust myths about contract design and legal design. Stefania is an information designer and a legal design pioneer who has worked with many lawyers to help them make law more user-friendly. We also talk about legal design from a designer’s perspective. 

In an ideal world all the contract designing, and legal designing,  would be done in multidisciplinary teams of lawyers and designers. However, there is often a lack of resources to do this and lawyers might want to design legal documents and concepts themselves.  Stefania gives tips to these lawyers on how to make law better and more understandable and functional for the end-users.

Stefania Passera is an information designer and a legal design pioneer. For over 10 years, Stefania has been helping her clients to simplify, visualize, and make user-friendlier their contracts, policies, and other legal documents. Born in Italy and based in Espoo, Finland, she is the founder of contract and legal design consultancy Passera Design and assistant professor at University of Vaasa, Finland. Moreover, she is Contract Designer in Residence at World Commerce & Contracting, a co-author of the Legal Design Manifesto, and a co-founder of Legal Design Alliance. In 2020 she received the European Women of Legal Tech Award.

16. Episode: Systemic Change in Law with Nóra Al Haider

Nóra Al Haider.

Good news guys! In order to make law better, lawyers don’t have to become designers or coders. But what we need to have are curiosity and an open mindset. In this episode Henna and Nina are joined by Nora Al Haider to discuss how to make more of a systematic change in law.  

Quite often, lawyers see legal problems only in a legal way. But because law is interlinked to other systems, we have to start inviting other disciplines into the space of law without judgement. And we have to go beyond design and simply start to ask other professionals how they solve problems and explore in multidisciplinary teams. And when we learn new ways to solve problems from other disciplines, we create new methodologies and that is where the change begins.  

Nowadays, the legal industry turns to legal design and legal technology when trying to find a way towards more human-centric law, but those two are not going to solve our problems alone. We need more systematic change and we have to make sure that the projects aiming to change the law and the legal system aren’t just single projects happening here and there. Because of her unique and interesting career path and background, Nora can see the differences between the American and European legal systems and she shares her insights on what should be done in both systems in order to make law more accessible in a more sustainable way.

Nóra Al Haider is the Policy and Design Lead at the Stanford Legal Design Lab. Nóra is a multilingual lawyer and interdisciplinary researcher from the Netherlands. She combines the fields of law, design and tech to increase access to justice and equity in the legal system. 

Her pioneering and innovative creations from social media bots that provide legal advice to analyzing the legal needs of users on online platforms earned her international acclaim in the legal field. Nóra’s legal design projects and interactive art installations have been spotlighted at courts, bar associations, legal organizations and in law schools around the world. She is driven by merging various disciplines, processes, and methodologies to enact systemic change in the justice system. Nóra holds a Bachelor (honours) and Research Master in Law from Utrecht University.

15. Episode: Designing Professional Services for Future with Sebastian Hartmann

Sebastian Hartmann.

“We are not just delivering consulting services, accounting services or legal services anymore, it’s actually solutions. This is a huge and fundamental mindset shift for our industry.” says Sebastian Hartmann.

In this episode Henna and Nina talk to Sebastian Hartmann about how to shape law firms, and other professional service firms, for the future and how design thinking plays a role in the change journey. Legal industry has been talking about the change and the future for the past twenty years but now we are actually living the change. Old business models are outdated and our clients are expecting us to deliver solutions, instead of just services. New business models require new management play books and new career paths for lawyers.

But how to drive this change and make sure that the organizations are ready for the future and where to start the innovation work? From Sebastian’s point of view, design already shapes the way many legal businesses operate today but there is still a lot to do. Collecting and analyzing data will play a key role in future ready service firms but there is also a big demand for multidisciplinary teamwork and collaboration between firms that once were just rivals.

Sebastian Hartmann works at the intersection of knowledge work and technology at KPMG. With his teams, he actively influences, shapes, leads and manages the strategies and resulting digital transformation journeys of people-centered and knowledge-driven organizations, e.g. at Fortune 500, DAX companies and leading B2B service providers.

At KPMG, Sebastian enjoys shaping the firm’s digital transformation – and works hand in hand with leading technology companies and other professional services firms as clients and alliance partners. He together with his teams have shaped strategies and their execution across all of KPMG’s lines of business, designed digital and next gen solutions, and driven cultural and organizational transformation programs – and achieved significant growth and profitability contributions.

Sebastian sees the digital transformation and evolution of knowledge work as an incredible opportunity for everyone involved. Being part of this journey and shaping some of the stepping stones for knowledge workers (like special matter experts, consultants, lawyers, auditors, designers and many others) and their clients is a key driver of his motivation every single day.

Read more about the Solution Design Canvas on LinkedIn here.

14. Episode: Designing for Children’s Rights with Jonna Tötterman

Jonna Tötterman

The children’s rights, such as the right for information, actually demands a shift towards child-centered information design in all aspects, including data regulation, privacy notices and terms of service. Currently those are provided only in legal terms and language and law might be a difficult topic to understand even for adults.

The special area where children’s rights are discussed a lot these days is the digital world – kids as the end users of digital games, internet and social media. Today’s kids also seem to be more digi native than any other generation before. For them it is completely natural to think of becoming a “youtube content creator”, coder or “Minecraft school teacher” when they grow up. However, children will always be children and need protection for their innocence no matter what the environment they use as their playground is. 

In this episode we talk about the role of legal design in designing for children with Jonna Tötterman, a Design Lead and Co-Founder of D4CR, Designing for Children’s Rights Association. Jonna tells us why children should be considered as a stakeholder group by default, and how to make a kid participate in a design sprint. We also discuss why children’s ability to navigate in the digital world is often overestimated, and why apps and other digital tools should be designed in a way that kids can use them without adult supervision.

Jonna Tötterman is a Design Lead, Researcher and a Coach and Co-Founder & board member in Designing for Children’s Rights Association. Jonna is a systemic, ethical and future-oriented thinker. She has had an excellent journey to study and marvel at human emotions, cognition and behaviour. This journey has led her to research and data-informed design, and developing products, services and processes that both enable great experiences as well as support well-being. Jonna aims to continue that adventure and share her learnings by developing tools to empower others. She believes that the world can be better only if we work together.

13. Episode: Legal Designing Financial Services with Fiona Phillips

Fiona Phillips

We often think that the world of Financial Services is a bit cold and all about money, but on the other hand banking, together with family law, is the  branch of law that almost every individual has an effect on their lives. Credit card terms and conditions are known to be quite difficult for consumers to read, let alone to understand. Clients might often feel that financial services and its legal issues are not designed for them.

Since cash money is becoming less and less relevant in digitized societies, however, the functions of financial services are transforming heavily, bringing out not only new challenges but also new interesting opportunities. Designing the legal aspects of financial services to be more human friendly plays an important role in this transformation.

In this episode Henna and Nina talk to Fiona Phillips who believes that customers deserve  legal design. Customers deserve to understand what it is that financial services are selling to them. And they deserve the service providers to think about their user experience. Fiona is sharing her experience on legal design projects within financial services. After this episode, it is easy to see why banking should be all about the people and how legal design can help the industry to become more human-centric.

Fiona Phillips is the Global Head of Digital Legal at a large international bank and one of this year’s winner’s of the Financial Times Innovative Lawyers’ Legal Design Awards. She has been experimenting with legal design and collaborating with designers across the Globe, since she discovered legal design at the Legal Design Summit in Helsinki. Fiona has worked as a lawyer in the Banking Industry for 13 years and is passionate about innovation for lawyers.

12. Episode: Legal Research by Design with Jose Torres

Jose Torres.

There is no legal design without the “legal”. Making law better by design, therefore, always requires proper legal research and legal analysis. In this episode we are joined by a legal design veteran Jose Torres to legal research through design and how to build multidisciplinary teams to solve legal problems.

The traditional ways of finding and creating legal information, however, do not seem to go well along with the iterative and future oriented design approach. Where legal analysis traditionally looks back to tell “what was wrong”, design seeks to find solutions that are fit for purpose and usable in practice to actually fix the problem. But traditional law and design thinking are not at odds against each other, even if it may seem like it. As our guest in this episode, Jose Torres, points out, design is an empirical research method that helps lawyers not only to find the right solutions, but also to ask the right questions.

Jose Torres has vast experience of legal design from both the academic world but also in practice. Jose shares stories about his career and how legal design has shaped it. For him, legal design is the normal, and only,  way to practice law. Jose currently works as a partner at the law firm Lexia Abogados in Bogotá, Colombia, leading the legal design, crypto and fintech practice. Jose tells us how design techniques can be used as legal research methods, and how to build a design minded legal research team and who should be included.

Jose Torres is a partner at the law firm Lexia Abogados in Colombia, where he leads the legal design, crypto and fintech practice. He is a former fellow at Stanford University’s Legal Design Lab 2016-2017. Jose has previously worked at Facebook, Skadden Arps and the WTO. He has been practicing legal design for 8 years. He is also an angel investor in legal tech in Colombia.

9. Episode: Towards Multisensory Legal Design with Colette R. Brunschwig

Colette R. Brunschwig

In this episode Henna and Nina talk to Dr. Colette R. Brunschwig about visual law and legal design. Colette is one of the pioneers in Legal Design, she has been exploring the visual, audiovisual and multisensory design of legal or legally relevant content since the 1990’s.

A good legal picture tells more than a 1000 words. That’s why visuality is a central feature of legal design. Where legal pictures can communicate legal information so efficiently that collective understanding of the key issue is created within seconds, unclear text-only legal documents can leave parties disputing over different interpretations of them for years. Visuality, however, is still a rarity in legal communication. The future of law does look brighter though, as there are signals towards a visual and even audiovisual and multisensory design of law. 

Many people associate legal design especially with legal visualizations, such as different visualisation methods that can be used in contract design. However, legal design can go beyond visualisation. In this episode our guest Colette R. Brunschwig explains how visual law and legal design are similar, but also what differences there are between these two.

Almost all the theories assume that legal designers are humans, but, the ongoing technological development initiates multisensorization, such as humanoid robots. We also discuss this in the episode, because Colette has estimated in her previous work that humanoid robots could be used for visualising contracts. Are there such robots already somewhere? What will it take for the legal society to recognize human robots as legal designers?

Colette R. Brunschwig is a Senior Research Associate at the Legal Visualization Unit of the University of Zurich, Department of Law. She is responsible for the content management of the Legal Visualization Unit’s legal image database. Her research focuses on law‘s visualization, audio visualization (videos, films, audiovisual animations, and so forth), and multi sensorization (virtual realities, humanoid robots). Her publications, postings, and presentations at national and international conferences strive to promote, expand, and intensify the ongoing debate on these subject matters.

Selected Recent Publications

Brunschwig, Colette R. Visualisierung von Rechtsnormen: Legal Design, Zurich: Schulthess, 2001 [PhD thesis]

“Multisensory Law and Therapeutic Jurisprudence: How Family Mediators Can Better Communicate with Their Clients.” Phoenix Law Review 5, no. 5 (Summer 2012): 705-46.

“Law Is Not or Must Not Be Just Verbal and Visual in the 21st Century: Toward Multisensory Law.” In Nordic Yearbook of Law and Informatics 2010-2012: Internationalisation of Law in the Digital Information Society, edited by Dan Jerker B. Svantesson and Stanley Greenstein, 231–83. Copenhagen: Ex Tuto, 2013.

The complete list of Colette R. Brunschwig’s publications is found on Researchgate.

8. Episode: Justice through Urban Design with Shin Koseki

Shin Koseki.

Join us, as we discuss how designing our urban environment can influence (social) justice and everyday democracy. In this episode we talk to Shin Koseki, an urban designer, who explains why it is important to pay attention to the design of our public spaces when discussing (social) justice. We also focus on the design of the courthouses and find out about the Darth Vader Family Courthouse in New York.

According to Shin, we have to begin to understand that we are the environment. The most influential factor to human behavior is not buildings or places, it is the other people. Urban planning and urban design can work on this by providing a form of contact or interaction with other humans. However, the urban environment around us can affect how us humans behave. We might think that there are “bad neighborhoods” but is it just bad design? Is it possible to make people obedient to law through urban design?

We also talk about the particular design of the spaces of justice, especially courthouses. Why do courthouses always look either pompous or boring? What would bring good feng shui to a courtroom? In the era of digitalization it seems that we are shifting more and more to communicating online and physical spaces of human contact are becoming less necessary. What if instead of massive court buildings we have smaller, movable  “pop-up courts” or  other more diverse and functionable courtrooms closer to the people? Or does it make sense that there is one particular place for disputing,  just like the court stones in some Scandinavian countries up until the 17th century?

Shin Koseki is an urban designer, policy-maker, coder, and co-founder of Paris-based urban planning cooperative and think tank Chôros. He is UNESCO Chair Professor in Urban Landscape at the University of Montreal.

At the intersection of research and practice, his work centers on spatial justice and sustainability in and outside cities, the integration of digital methods in urban design approaches to resilience, and the inclusion of citizens’ worldview in design and legislation processes. His engagements thus builds on the relationship between aspirations, affordances and capabilities in the production of space and questions design’s contribution to values. In this framework, he develops methods and actions that address injustice, carelessness, inequity and polarization among individuals, groups, communities, regions and countries.

Shin has carried his research and teaching at both Swiss Federal Institute of Technologies (EPFL and ETH Zurich), the University of Oxford (Oxon.), the National University of Singapore (NUS), the University of Zurich (UZH), the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), the University of Zurich (UZH) and the Max-Planck Institute for the History of Art and Architecture (Bibliotheca Hertziana).

7. Episode: Design Compliance with Marie Potel-Saville and Elisabeth Talbourdet

Elisabeth Talbourdet (left) and Marie Potel-Saville.

In this episode we have Marie Potel-Saville and Elisabeth Talbourdet visiting us. Marie shares the story of founding Amurabi, the Legal Innovation by Design agency, and they both tell how they became legal designers. We also talk about designing compliance. If organisations want their stakeholders to comply with certain rules and regulations, they have to design how to make that happen. 

Marie started her career working for the biggest law firms and the most known companies, but after coming across with Legal Design and seeing what an impact it has, she founded Amurabi to continue on working with making law more functional. Elisabeth started her career as an in-house lawyer but quickly moved to Legal Design.

Marie and Elisabeth have worked on many projects on designing compliance. The definition of corporate compliance encompasses the efforts to ensure that organizations are abiding by both industry regulations and government legislation as well as internal policies and procedures. Compliance for employees is often just a set of rules written in legalese and it might be hard to understand how they affect their daily life at work. However, these same rules and complying with them are vital to organisations to prevent and detect violations of these rules, which are to protect the organisations from fines and lawsuits.

The common approach to compliance, however, is to “tick the box” when certain formalities in the company’s compliance protocol have been accomplished, without making sure whether people really know and understand what is expected of them. No wonder we get to read so often about corporate misconduct in the newspapers. If organizations really want to succeed in corporate compliance, it might require some human-centric design and understanding of social psychology and neuroscience. ”If you really want people to comply, then of course you have to design it”, says Marie. “There is no formalistic compliance, there’s only effective compliance”.

Marie Potel-Saville combines over 15 years of Magic Circle experience at Freshfields and Allen & Overy in London, Brussels, Paris and EMEA General Counsel experience at Estée Lauder Companies and Chanel, along with a Master’s degree in Innovation by Design (ENSCI). After having seen the results of Legal Design in her own legal division, she founded Amurabi to share its potential: more than a theory, it’s a tool for empowerment. In addition, she is a lecturer at Sciences Po Paris, University of Management of Singapore, Assas and contributes to initiatives of social service (access to justice, civic education, prevention).

Elisabeth Talbourdet graduated from La Sorbonne, Sciences Po, King’s College London and Columbia Law School and trained as a lawyer amongst renowned law firms in London and Paris. Elisabeth discovered Legal Design working in-house and was immediately taken by this new approach to law. She sees Legal Design as a solution to make legal information clear and actionable – and to change the way legal recommendations are perceived, understood and applied. A legal design pioneer of her generation, Elisabeth has already worked on over 30 projects and facilitated dozens of workshops and conferences within Amurabi.